Curse

Nightwish · May 08, 2006, 04:15 AM // 04:15

Originality will not assist you in winning as much as a proven good build does.

Aside from that, this game does not really support build secrecy, such as observer mode and skill usage on opponents. In the end, everyone will find out what build another player is using.

Yes, this might be disappointing to those interested in thinking up novel builds and keep them - but that is not what it meant to be, in GW at least.

Inspirational Muse · May 08, 2006, 06:29 PM // 18:29

I acknowledge that there are tried and true builds out there. Being original is more a thing of dignity to me, over winning. I find out builds that work pretty well for myself. It is possible, you know. I don't care if others have the same build, what matters is that I didn't intentionally steal the build from another.

It's kind of like playing Magic:The Gathering. I have a friend that would go on Brainburst.com and look up tournament decks, then buy all the cards he needed to make the deck. Why did he do this? So he could try and beat us all. He only values winning above all else. I, on the other hand, would make highly original decks that were still good and could beat him.

Of course, Guild Wars isn't much like M:tG, but the principle is still there. Some people just can't live with not making something that is at least there partly their own.

lightblade · May 08, 2006, 10:55 PM // 22:55

I do mind people copying my build...

I just made a godly Assassin build on Friday night for Alliance battles...by Sunday night everybody in there was using it...

And so...soon it's not so godly anymore...you know how it is...people always come up with counters to popular builds..

Gosu · May 09, 2006, 01:19 AM // 01:19

lets be honest here, there are 2 types of pvp players.

(player type 1) - Are the players that spend time scrimmaging and testing stuff, so they can create there own character builds and guild builds.

(player type 2)- Are the lazy players these are the players who can't be bothered to create their own builds or who do not have the time or the inclination to create anything original and therefore just copy.

Most ppl that are i know are in category 1 but during my time in GW i have met alot of players that are in category 2, alot of these players do have the knowledge to create their own builds, but because they do not have the time nor the inclination to learn and gain knowledge on how to do this they just copy top guilds to create their builds, they just go into observer mode and copy. I for one know a hell of a lot of players who wouldn't of had a clue how to pvp let alone GvG without "observer mode" to fall back on.

I also know quite a few guilds who have just copied top guild builds and have gotten into the top 200 quite easily. So people copying top guilds and being sucessful does work. The thing is though that these guilds come unstuck quite easily. As once that build gets run into the ground and guilds begin countering that particualr build, they don't usually have the skill of an EViL or Te to go away and recreate new builds to come back with.

I have met quite a few players who have just copied and used builds that they have seen good guilds use and that has seen them ride to the top, but because no one in the guild bothered to learn how to create their own builds, when their one and only build isn't working anymore they then hit a stumbling block as they realise even though they are ranked in the top 100 they are still the noobs who didn't know squat back when they were unranked.

make no mistake there is nothing wrong in watching top guilds and learning how to play the game and observing what tactics work and what doesn't work, and taking ideas as concepts to work from but copying entire builds shouldn't really be done, but it always will be done.

i mean the greatest example of monkey see monkey do is the IWAY or ranger spike builds, alot of people copy those builds in particular to earn easy fame farming.

Which actually leads me to another question who or what Guild created or started the concept of IWAY.

So anyway in reponse to the OP pardon my language but you are just goona have to swallow a big spoonful of TS, accept it and deal with it

Ensign · May 09, 2006, 07:33 AM // 07:33

I think people really underestimate the amount of 'build stealing' that goes on even at the top of the ladder. Anything that is effective, from a tactic to an individual skill change is noted, copied, and incorporated by all the top guilds that can do so. Only an idiot would reinvent everything himself.

Peace,
-CxE

Ellena · May 09, 2006, 12:07 PM // 12:07

I'm not a competative PVPer in guild wars ( really I'm a newbie), but I've been fairly serious about it in other games. Some one said that the build creater is better at running the build than copycats, they were very wrong. I've had people play builds I've invented better than I do. they just drill more and have faster reflexes. That said. *shrug* such is the nature of the beast.

JR · May 09, 2006, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellena

I'm not a competative PVPer in guild wars ( really I'm a newbie), but I've been fairly serious about it in other games. Some one said that the build creater is better at running the build than copycats, they were very wrong. I've had people play builds I've invented better than I do. they just drill more and have faster reflexes. That said. *shrug* such is the nature of the beast.

The assumption with the statement you quote, would be that the build creator would have had the build for longer and therefore would have had more practice with it. In which case it doesn't apply to you, if you don't play your own builds very much.

lightblade · May 10, 2006, 02:15 AM // 02:15

I know people probably won't believe me if I say this but...

I was the first one that started using boon prot in RA, then other people in RA start using it too. Soon after that, top guilds start using it too and perfected it.

Effigy · May 10, 2006, 11:47 AM // 11:47

How can you tell you were the first? This is the thing, no one knows what everyone else in the game is running. Even if you didn't copy a build from someone else, you can be fairly confident that if the build makes sense someone has run the same thing or similar before.

JR · May 10, 2006, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightblade

I know people probably won't believe me if I say this but...

I was the first one that started using boon prot in RA, then other people in RA start using it too. Soon after that, top guilds start using it too and perfected it.

Just because you happened to realise one day that certain Protection spells worked quite nicely with Divine Boon, doesn't mean you have the right to claim the build. Just because you hadn't seen one before, doesn't mean they didn't already exist. Boon Prots have been around since a hell of a long time before Observer Mode, so I don't really see how you feel you can make that claim.

Hell, I remember taking a Boon Prot into GvG waaay back when I was in XoO. At the time it was considered nothing more than a strong Arena build, and (I think it was either Moskel or Billiard) were very wary of letting me use it. However, you wont see me claiming I pioneered running Boon Prots in GvG. Even though I don't remember anyone else doing it at the time, I am pretty sure someone else must have been.

I've said it before, and i'll say it again. People who claim builds as their own are fooling themselves. There is virtually nothing that in Guild Wars that hasn't been thought up and tried a million times already by decent and creative players.

It reminds me of the person in a guild wars IRC channel, that claimed he invented the Bonder. Wrong; Anet invented the Bonder when they put Life Bond and Blessed Signet into the game.

Vahn Roi · May 10, 2006, 12:38 PM // 12:38

"He stole my build!"

Really, how immature can you get?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

I've said it before, and i'll say it again. People who claim builds as their own are fooling themselves. There is virtually nothing that in Guild Wars that hasn't been thought up and tried a million times already by decent and creative players.

very well said

lightblade · May 10, 2006, 08:02 PM // 20:02

I'm sure I'm the first that started boon prot, because I started using the build not long after the introduction of balthazar's factions with the 5 core skills of the build.

Divine Boon
Reversal
Guardian
Shielding Hand
Contemplation of Purity

Mantra of Recovery was added by others, that skill was not part of my build. I remember this because I gained 12k factions in 3 hours in RA. I only stopped because too many people RA sees this build and brought too much mesmers in it.

I can claim at least 2 builds used by top guilds are first used by me in RA. (since nobody in my guild ever listen to my build suggestions, neither are people in here, cuz they think I'm dumb and my build wouldn't work until I tested it out in RA and people start copying me)

But you're right, I shouldn't be complaining about people stealing my build, because I steal others build too. (touch ranger and frag mes)

"I've said it before, and i'll say it again. People who claim builds as their own are fooling themselves. There is virtually nothing that in Guild Wars that hasn't been thought up and tried a million times already by decent and creative players."

thought up maybe, but not tried million times. simply because they try it once and failed on the first time and never tries it again. it's not because the build is bad, it's just bad luck sometime.

Also, the number of different builds and variations are 75!/(75-8)!*30, the number comes so large that my calculator can't even do the math. Well you get the point. Some build would work with just a change of one skill.

Lharus · May 10, 2006, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

I'm sure I'm the first that started boon prot

but that doesn't make it your original build lol.

It is inevitable that people would use it. There are thousands of people who play. Each filled with alot of creativity. That build would have eventually been tried and proven. The Boon Prot would have come along with or without you.

Quote:

How can you tell you were the first? This is the thing, no one knows what everyone else in the game is running. Even if you didn't copy a build from someone else, you can be fairly confident that if the build makes sense someone has run the same thing or similar before.

QFT

Kariston The Swift · May 19, 2006, 12:06 AM // 00:06

I enjoy stealing builds and making them better because in this game no build is perfect.

nomed · May 19, 2006, 09:58 AM // 09:58

well, not everyone has the time to think of builds all day.

pah01 · May 28, 2006, 04:38 AM // 04:38

I invented the Boon Prot on the day of release.

I also invented the Bulls Charge Sword Warrior, The eviscerate axe spiker and the E-surge Mesmer.

I also designed the current 3 monk backline that was FOTM for ages.

I also am responsible for Flareway, Stoneway, and IWAY.

The feast of corruption spike that EW used this week and last was also created by me.

/sarcasm

sno · May 28, 2006, 04:29 PM // 16:29

How do you expect the game to grow? Guild Wars works the same way every other advancing topic does. The whole concept is to learn what's already known, and then once you're experienced with it you'll add your own flavor and input, advancing it even further. Try to imagine if the builds today (not including factions of course) would own the builds of earlier in the game.

As I said, this works for nearly everything. Consider snowboarding, for example. when you start snowboarding, you learn the things that are already well known, and practice them until you understand how and why everything works the way it does. Then in order to rise above the norm, you create original "tricks" (builds) and styles (strategies) that put you a step ahead. Without this copy/improve mentality, no forward progress would ever be made. If you were snowboarding, would you say "well don't do this trick because that's what everyone does." Of course not, you'd encourage its use, since it's proven.

It's up to the individual to rise above and be original, that's why the top guilds are top guilds, they rise above. I guarantee you every player in every top guild has played "fotm" or "common" builds, as that's how you get experience. Without experience with that, how can you possibly form new opinions about how things could be different? That's the whole point of the premade builds. The premade builds are tried and true (although outdated) PvP builds, that can give new players the experience they need to create original builds for themselves.

Why hate on people for stealing builds? As some have said, stealing won't make you a better player. Thought and skill make you a better player, and experience allows you to find new skillsets/strategies that you may not have seen others use before. Then when you start using it, if people see that it works they may start using it. You've then elevated the overall "skill" (term used loosely, couldn't think of a better one) of GW PvP as a whole, by some miniscule amount. Others will have new ideas, and slowly the GW PvP scene morphs and changes, each being able to beat previous strategies.

Everyone knows the word, but not many seem to really grasp what it means: This is the metagame.

Jestah · May 28, 2006, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahl

I just want to point out.. people have to stop worrying so much about finding a godly build or anything of the sort.

Finding a great build on google will not win you GvGs, and will not let you hold hoh for long, if at all.

bla bla bla /snip

I don't think people need you to point that out for them. Anyone who has tried this would have learned it by experience already.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahl

I come up with all kinds of builds, i brainstorm and look for things that people do not use. It's amazing how many great skill combos that are unused and are unexpected. I can't tell you how many times I've caught an enemy team off guard with my own build, and they had no idea how to counter it.

Medal is in the mail.

Jas D · May 29, 2006, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Dahl.. who cares. It's a game, people are here to have fun. You should really do the same and get over it. Nobody wants to hear you cry.

art_ · May 29, 2006, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahl

I just want to point out.. people have to stop worrying so much about finding a godly build or anything of the sort.

Finding a great build on google will not win you GvGs, and will not let you hold hoh for long, if at all.

People go on observer, and watch top guilds and hoh holders, and try to mimick their builds.

If they have held hoh for a long time, or if they are one of the top guilds, they did not get that far by using other peoples builds. They made their own, and practiced. People think "hey, if they're rank --, maybe I can get there too if I use their build" No, it does not work that way.

Any guild that is worth.. well, anything, came up with their OWN builds and strategies and spent countless hours practicing it.

Gale warriors are the most common of these copycat players, along with boon-prot, energy denial mesmers, and blinding flash eles are on the rise ever since the top guilds began using it.

I come up with all kinds of builds, i brainstorm and look for things that people do not use. It's amazing how many great skill combos that are unused and are unexpected. I can't tell you how many times I've caught an enemy team off guard with my own build, and they had no idea how to counter it.

Stay fresh people, use your own brain.

I'd also like to point out that any fame/rank that any IWAY team (besides the pioneers of the build which date back to the spring and summer of 2005) received in hoh is completely false and was gained with no skill, only an overpowered build.

What are you going to do when IWAY gets... "changed"? You're gonna be sitting there with your thumb up your ass wondering what to do since the only build you can play has been taken away from you.

Stand on your own two feet people. The secret to this game is to be unique and different.

Cry more plz.